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Repent!
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Norway abolishes state-sponsored Church of Norway
In a move sure to piss off Anders Breivik,
—The bipartisan measure to create a separation of church and state will officially be presented on Tuesday, reports Norway’s TV2. The nation will not have an official religion, and the government will not participate in the appointment of church deans and bishops.
Svein Harberg, the spokesman for the Church, Education, and Research Committee stated that the decision “is historic both for the Norwegian Church and for the politicians in Parliament.”
The Church of Norway began after the Lutheran Reformation in 1536, and was officially called the Lutheran State Church. The state meddled very little in church matters, only quelling unrest when it had to, chose high church officials, and financially supported the church. Opposition from secular groups arose in the 1970s when Norway’s economy boomed and the church benefited.Traditionally, every citizen of Norway became a member of the Church of Norway upon baptism. 79 percent of Norwegians are registered members, but only about 20 percent make religion a large part of their lives and only two percent attend church regularly, according to 2009 and 2010 data. A 2002 study done by Gustafsson and Pettersson revealed that 72 percent of Norwegians “do not believe in a personal God.”—
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Defining Marriage
In their talking points section, The National Organization for Marriage (or
NAMBLANOM) trains their people that “the most effective single sentence” to oppose gay marriage is:“Gays and Lesbians have a right to live as they choose,
they don’t have the right to redefine marriage for all of us.”Then later in the section, they offer this pearl of irony:
“Who gets harmed? The people of this state who lose our right to define marriage as the union of husband and wife, that’s who. That is just not right.”To summarize: gays don’t have the right to define marriage for the rest of us, that would take away our right to define marriage for them.
I dont know about you, but My marriage is Defined by My committment to My wife and Hers to Me. It has nothing at all to do with my neighbors commitment to His wife, or Hers to him. Neither can it be of any consequence who is married to who, or the make up of their personalities or sexual/gender identities.
I think it’s a curious perspective on marriage to define it by who else is getting married or by what authority sanctions it and not by your own personal commitment to your spouse. I guess I could be called short sighted but only because my concerns about marital status only project as far as my own.
I reject the idea that I fulfil some societal duty by who I choose to marry. I believe the state has a right to define the terms of some things, but not our personal relationships. I can hardly imagine something more fascist. It’s no less so when authoritarian parents dictate the relationships of their adult children or anyone tries to impose their standard of personal relationship on another.
Usually this type of fascism is supported by sanctimonious ideals. It’s proponents claim that marriage is sacred and eternal in it’s “traditional” deinition. Never mind that it’s definition ranges throughout hitorical and cultural contexts: from property agreements, plural contracts, family obligations and romantic courtly obligations; they’ve all made an appearance. Why do we not see NOM protesting Kim Kardashian’s sham wedding spectical? Other reality shows that mock marriage i.e. the bachelor. Are the drive through wedding chapels of no concern? How about the divorce rate of 50%? Afterall, in Mark 10:9 Jesus himself says: Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.
The official NOM talking point: “High rates of divorce are one more reason we should be strengthening marriage, not conducting radical social experiments on it.”
Seems to me that the only experiment is letting the state decide the make-up of a loving family.
One might ask how exactly they are achieving their goal, other than dictating who can get married. Free marriage counseling? Addressing proven factors that increase divorce rates, like economic hardship?? Where’s the campaign to tighten divorce laws, protests outside divorce courts?
Absurd Slippery slope arguments abound. My
favoriteis the concern that if gay marriage is legalized then people who are against it will be labeled bigots and homophobes. This amounts to: If I take my boot off of your neck, you might stand up and call me oppressive. We can’t have that, now can we? Giving you rights might impair my right to make unsubstantiated claims about your character and your family.Another unsubstantiated claim is the apparent negative affect same sex parenting will have on children. But study after study (while preliminary at this point) points to no difference in childhood development while no serious evidence of a negative effect has been discovered. And when you consider their silence on the myriad ways children are abused, neglected or otherwise fucked-up by straight parents all over the place… you really want to argue that simply being raised by 2 moms or 2 dads is the most unacceptable of all scenarios; The thing that you have to prevent at all costs?? It’s a assertion based on Chrsitian “intuition”, not science. They’d let a kid sit in an orphanage until adulthood before allowing two loving men to adopt.
Then there’s the red herring of under-population. As if the world might run out of people if some couples didn’t procreate. Even though the population just crossed 7 Billion and is exponentially increasing while we tackle every manner of resource crisis. Never mind that the rate of infertile and voluntarily non-reproductive couples dwarfs the rate of those of the same sex. And there is nothing stoping a SSC from reproducing via fertility treatments or surrogates, well, except more discriminatory legislation, that is.All of this anxiety seems to stem from the unfounded belief that queer is contagious. All the worry about the kids and populations and society all seem to require the premise that a failure to suppress the behavior will allow it to spread like a disease until the whole world is gay and (ironically) the hetero minority is discriminated against.
The National Organization for Marriage should be called The National Organization Against Gay Marriage. These groups love to put a positive spin on what they are doing when in fact they achieve nothing positive. The word “for” has no business in the title. Their’s is a campaign against something, not for something. They aren’t out to strengthen marriages or protect children. If those were their ultimate goals they would see the mountain of work they could do that would directly achieve them. Instead, they’re spending countless hours and dollars focused on defining gay peoples’ relationships with nothing but worst case bible based speculation to justify it. Because lets face it, there are no fact based arguments to defend marriage discrimination. There’s only a conservative “feeling” that it’s wrong, supported by a selective reading of the Bible and a total willful misunderstanding of homosexuality.
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Teach the controversy.
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The four different Gods that Americans worship:
A Baylor Study revealed that Americans have “two clear and distinct dimensions” in their beliefs about God:
Degree of God’s engagement: The extent to which God is directly and intimately involved in the life of each believer and in the lives of other humans.
Degree of God’s wrath: The extent by which God is angered by our sin and will punish us for our transgressions.
Since each of these dimensions can have a high or low value, the study talks in terms of Americans recognizing the existence of one out of four possible Gods:
Type A: Authoritarian God: (High engagement; high anger; believed in by 31.4% of the population.) God is viewed as being highly involved in each believer’s life. God guides believers to make proper decisions; God is responsible for major world events - tsunamis, etc; God is furious at human sinfulness and punishes sinners. Southerners; evangelicals; women; African Americans; persons with lower educational attainment and lower income, those who pray often and attend church frequently, and those who view God as a “he” tend to believe in this God more than the average American.
Type B: Benevolent God: (High engagement; low anger; believed in by 23% of the population.) As for Type A, God is active in everyone’s lives. But he is slow to anger and punish. Rather, he influences people positively. Mid-westerners, women, persons with lower educational attainment, lower income, who pray often and attend church frequently are more likely to believe in this God.
Type C: Critical God: (Low engagement; high anger; believed in by 16% of the population.) God does not interact much with the world. He is angered at sin but generally withholds punishment to be meted out in the afterlife. Easterners, men, persons with higher educational attainment, and persons with higher income are more likely than average to believe in this God.
Type D: Distant God: (Low engagement; low anger; believed in by 24.4% of the population.) This is similar to the God of the Deists: he is viewed as a cosmic force who created the universe and its natural laws. He is not involved much with the world and does not judge humans. West coasters, Roman Catholics, mainline Protestants, Jews, men, persons with higher educational attainment, and persons with higher income are more likely than average to believe in this God.
The remaining 5.2% of the population not included above are strong Atheists who reject the existence of God.
The study analyzed the effects of gender, race, age, education, income, region, church attendance, frequency of prayer, religious tradition, and interpretation of the Bible. They found some groups in which the majority believed in the Type A authoritarian God:
68.0% of Black Protestants,
60.8% of biblical literalists,
56.1% of those who believe that God is a “He”,
52.8% of African Americans,
54.8% of those who pray several times a day,
52.3% of evangelical Protestants, and
50.9% of those who attend church weekly,
There were no groups of adults in which a majority believed in one of the other three types of Gods.
Conclusions:
One might reach some shocking conclusions from the Baylor Religion Study:
Americans believe in four very different, incompatible conceptions of God.
Assuming that only one God actually exists, then
At least three of the God types listed above are false.
Most American adults believe in a type of God who is non-existent.
The vast majority of American adults base their belief in one of these four Gods — directly or indirectly — on the contents of the Hebrew Scriptures and Christian Scriptures (a.k.a. Old Testament and New Testament). Thus, it appears that either:
The Bible is ambiguous when it describes the nature of God.
Faith groups have been doing a poor job at education.
Prayer is obviously ineffective in assessing the nature of God. If it did work, then essentially all believers in God would quickly gravitate away from at least three of the four Gods to a more accurate viewpoint. This conclusion is in harmony with the results of a pilot study among this website’s visitors. That study showed that believers cannot assess the will of God through prayer.
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Can Religion Justify Bullying Children?
Sean Faircloth, author of “Attack of the Theocrats”, talks about how your tax dollars are used to support the corporal punishment, physical and mental abuse, miseducation and discrimination of a couple million American kids via subsidies to religious fundamentalists schools. He calls on secularists to seize the moral high-ground on the treatment of children.
(Source: Richarddawkns.net)
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via: FB
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Christians Must Take the Bible Literally
Christians cannot interpret the Bible in whatever way they please. They must take it literally. Before I convince all Christians and Atheists alike, I will like to outline the initial requirements to be a Christian:
- One must accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
- One must believe that he died for one’s sins.
- One must believe that he resurrected.
- One must believe that he ascended to the right hand of his father and that he is the son of god.
Of course, there are many more requirements. For example, a Christian that decides not to get baptized has fallen short — well, at least in the eyes of other Christians. I’m sure Christians are fully capable of adding more requirements. Nonetheless, these are the core requirements.
So, why did Christ die? The best answer can be found in this passage:
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.
15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 5:12-21
This passage is supplemented by 1 Corinthians 15:45.
In the modern day, there are many Christians who have chosen to cancel out the creation myth in Genesis. However, I posit that they haven’t considered the implications of doing so. If the first Adam didn’t exist, what reason do we have to believe that the second Adam existed? If the first Adam didn’t didn’t bring sin into the world, for what reason did Christ die? Can one conclude that Christ existed though Adam didn’t exist? According to the “word of god,” such a conclusion cannot be made. Therefore, all Christians must embrace the creation account. Unfortunately, the account is a myth. Hence Adam is a myth and it would logically follow that Christ is also a myth.
How does this all imply that they must take the Bible literally? Well, Adam is the forefather. If Adam didn’t exist, it logically follows that all the characters in the Bible didn’t exist. The genealogies can be found throughout the Bible. However, this chart has unified the genealogies of the Old Testament; this chart has simplified the genealogy of Christ. This is what occurs when the Bible isn’t taken literally. If one cancels out the creation myth, one cancels out Adam; if one cancels out Adam, one cancels out Christ and all of the other characters in the Bible. In like manner, if one cancels out the flood myth, one cancels out a vital portion of the genealogy. Who does one put in Noah’s place? How would this new character be supported? My suggestion: take out a brand new scroll and draft a new religion. The creation account is bunk; our modern understanding of Evolution effectively buried the account in Genesis. I’m sorry to break it to you, but Christianity is dead.
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"The world has been for a long time engaged in writing lives of Jesus… The library of such books has grown since then. But when we come to examine them, one startling fact confronts us: all of these books relate to a personage concerning whom there does not exist a single scrap of contemporary information — not one! By accepted tradition he was born in the reign of Augustus, the great literary age of the nation of which he was a subject. In the Augustan age historians flourished; poets, orators, critics and travelers abounded. Yet not one mentions the name of Jesus Christ, much less any incident in his life."
- Moncure D. Conway [1832 - 1907] (Modern Thought) -
The Clergy Project
The Clergy Project is a confidential online community for active and former clergy who do not hold supernatural beliefs. The Clergy Project launched on March 21st, 2011.Currently, the community’s 150 plus members use it to network and discuss what it’s like being an unbelieving leader in a religious community. The Clergy Project’s goal is to support members as they move beyond faith. Members freely discuss issues related to their transition from believer to unbeliever.
Note: You have to be a screened member in order to view or interact in the forums, but there are testimonials and news updates open to the public. I just think it’s fascinating.
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![Life Without God - Sam Harris interviews a former pastor.
Tim Prowse was a United Methodist pastor for almost 20 years, serving churches in Missouri and Indiana. Tim earned a B.A. from East Texas Baptist University, a Master of Divinity (M.Div) from Saint Paul School of Theology in Kansas City, Missouri, and a Doctor of Ministry (D.Min) from Chicago Theological Seminary. Acknowledging his unbelief, Tim left his faith and career in 2011. He currently lives in Indiana. He was kind enough to discuss his experience of leaving the ministry with [Sam Harris] by email.](http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lziu0cHoHe1qf07h2o1_1280.png)
High ResolutionLife Without God - Sam Harris interviews a former pastor.Tim Prowse was a United Methodist pastor for almost 20 years, serving churches in Missouri and Indiana. Tim earned a B.A. from East Texas Baptist University, a Master of Divinity (M.Div) from Saint Paul School of Theology in Kansas City, Missouri, and a Doctor of Ministry (D.Min) from Chicago Theological Seminary. Acknowledging his unbelief, Tim left his faith and career in 2011. He currently lives in Indiana. He was kind enough to discuss his experience of leaving the ministry with [Sam Harris] by email.
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"The Synoptic Gospels employ techniques that we today associate with fiction."
- Paul Q. Beeching, Central Connecticut State University (Bible Review, June 1997, Vol. XIII, Number 3, p. 43) -
Did a historical Jesus exist?
Amazingly, the question of an actual historical Jesus rarely confronts the religious believer. The power of faith has so forcefully driven the minds of most believers, and even apologetic scholars, that the question of reliable evidence gets obscured by tradition, religious subterfuge, and outrageous claims. The following gives a brief outlook about the claims of a historical Jesus and why the evidence the Christians present us cannot serve as justification for reliable evidence for a historical Jesus.
Great article. Thinking back, it seems that the only counter argument or “evidence” in favor of his existence are inconsistencies in the gospels which scholars believe would have been avoided had the story been fabricated from thin air.
(Source: aninterestingdebate, via aninterestingdebate)
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Science - it’s all your fault!
Except science doesn’t actually disprove the Christian faith, just odd minority beliefs based on odd interpretations of the Bible. The idea that science and religion are opposed is about as modern as young earth creationism. Both ideas have only been about for roughly 200 years. I’m a Christian and I love science (if I didn’t I would not be an MSc student doing my thesis in neuroscience).
I didn’t realize that the basis of original sin, the garden myth, was just an “odd minority belief” in Christianity. You learn something new every day! I guess these days most liberal christians just invent their own reason to feel guilty and broken.
I’d bet Galileo would’ve said that the idea that science and religion are opposed (or at least adversarial) is older than you posit and I get the feeling that young earth creationism is too. But since I think religion is a hyper form of superstition, I’m not surprised at all that there are scientists who believe in it (I think the stat was like 8% of the nat. Academy), just as there are scientists who avoid walking beneath ladders or who have a lucky pocket protector. I just think that religion derives power from the unknown by offering consolations.. Science threatens that by constantly inching back the curtain.
It’s probably more acurate to say that “spirituality” has no quarrel with science.
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“JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SINS, SO IF YOU DON’T SIN, JESUS DIED FOR NOTHING.”
Yeah, I never understood this.
If Jesus died for your sins, does that mean you can do whatever you want?
And if not, why did Jesus die for your sins?
I guess that Jesus was supposed to die to cure us of “original sin.” You know, when people who didn’t know right from wrong ate a fruit that told them the difference between right and wrong and they got punished for it.
Of course, there are many Christians who acknowledge that the story of Adam and Eve is likely a fable, and it it’s a fable, then there would be no original sin. So, I’m not sure exactly what the heck Jesus died for here, or why he was sent down to begin with.
The pieces … just … don’t … fit.
~ Steve
But wait, priests still teach that everyone is born with original sin. Does that original sin become swept away after one accepts the teachings of Jesus? None of my Christian friends can explain this to me, usually because they don’t understand it themselves, which is just dandy!
Original sin is washed away at baptism. (sorry for intruding)
Okay. I always wondered what the heck baptism was supposed to accomplish. Thank you. I could ask then why did Jesus get baptized if he was born without sin, but I’m not really that interested in this.
However, maybe you can answer what to me is a more important question…what the heck sins did Jesus die for? Was it just so that we wouldn’t have to do animals sacrifices any more? Did God send down his only son to die in torment to save the lives of some goats?
No no no. Christ died so that man can be forgiven for the sins he commits DURING HIS LIFE. You can’t use “Well I’m forgiven” as a get-out-of-jail-free-card — you need to ask forgiveness for your wrong doings (through confession if you’re Catholic) repent and then make an effort not to do it again. You can’t just go making the same mistakes over and over again and go “WELL JESUS FORGIVES ME” because that’s just not how it works. Basically, Jesus died for our sins, he died to open the way to Heaven for those who obtain forgiveness for their sins. (Once again, you can’t just go committing the same sin over and over again and think of that as a get-out-of-jail-free card).
TL;DR: Baptism wipes away original sin, Jesus died for the sins we commit POST baptism.
At least, that’s the way I understand it. I’m really just an agnostic with some Christian/Catholic leanings because of my parents.
(haha sorry about that, I just felt like I needed to explain it because it makes a lot of sense to me and that’s how my mom explained it to me…)
Okay, this makes sense. Well, it doesn’t make sense, but I can see the reasoning behind it. But I still don’t see how asking for forgiveness from Christ is any better than sacrificing a goat and asking for forgiveness that way.
I think the point is that he died for our past and future sins. You can indeed do whatever you want, as long as you repent and accept Jesus before you die. It’s important to believe that you could die or Jesus could return at any moment for this to actually have any affect. You notice that the churches which teach the more imminent end tend to garner more obedient flocks. The concept of Jesus is loaded with logical trapdoors. Aside from evolution disproving original sin and the whole distasteful and rather unnecessary business of vicarious redemption via human/demigod sacrifice, there’s the this whole not staying dead thing. How can you give credit to someone for dying for you when they don’t really die? Especially if he was an omnicient eternal being all along who’s human form was basically a painful but extremely brief inconvenience. What exactly was sacrificed? And I still don’t understand why he was God’s “only” begotten son. Why couldn’t God return to us whenever he wanted? Qualifying Jesus as his ‘only’ son seems arbitrary. As if God became infertile after Jesus’ birth and was unable to have any more kids and we’re supposed to feel bad for him giving that only child up for hot god-minute. The details for the story are clearly the result of tribal patriarchal thinking, where the idea of losing ones only son was the most devastating thing that could happen.
![Life Without God - Sam Harris interviews a former pastor.
Tim Prowse was a United Methodist pastor for almost 20 years, serving churches in Missouri and Indiana. Tim earned a B.A. from East Texas Baptist University, a Master of Divinity (M.Div) from Saint Paul School of Theology in Kansas City, Missouri, and a Doctor of Ministry (D.Min) from Chicago Theological Seminary. Acknowledging his unbelief, Tim left his faith and career in 2011. He currently lives in Indiana. He was kind enough to discuss his experience of leaving the ministry with [Sam Harris] by email.](http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lziu0cHoHe1qf07h2o1_500.png)